I don't know but if my father and uncle were murdered I would be careful with what I said to upset people regarding Zionism particularly when the United States govt denied protection. The president had no right to do that. Without the FBI, CIA and US military to check on things like strategically placed bombs on roads or in limos, I would be pretty frightened someone might kill me. Wouldn't you?
Many of us gray haired people were very happy with Kennedy's campaign until his adamant support for Israel's genocide. It put the lie to his anti-war and anti-racism verbal commitment. He has lost a lot of support over this and his refusal to look at the context of Oct 7 which is the 75 yr old illegal and brutal Israeli Occupation of Palestine with its imperialist goals of gaining control of other Arab states. One of his major points of attraction was his commitment to talk with people about all issues with an open mind. Given the outpouring of millions of people in the US and world wide against this genocide against the Palestinians and Israel's outright denial of their cultural existence it is clear that he is not as open minded as he claims and has betrayed any trust we had placed in him. We liked his stance of vaccine safety which he has refused to even discuss anymore which raises questions about whether he would sell out to AIPAC and Christian Zionists. Given his popularity among many younger people, losing the support of the older generations who wanted to trust him is a losing position and I urge his to alter his positions on this.
"By Speaking Truth to Youth, RFK Jr. Earns the Highest Favorability of Any Presidential Candidate"
. . .
But, how many well-informed youth are proud of America supplying Israel with the bombs that's turned Gaza City into Dresden? Some of that Gen Z support may wane when they “start paying attention” to Kennedy's hard-line Zionist position. Gen Z doesn't watch corporate propaganda news. When they dig into this issue, RFK's position won't make sense to them. When RFK Jr. just parrots Israel Lobby & Rabbi Shmuley Boteach's talking-points he damages his integrity & credibility on all subjects. Young people have been burned by Bernie; they have an aversion to BS and hypocrisy. It's frustrating to me that the RFK & his new campaign manager apparently haven't listened to the “other side” and fact-check their position.
If RFK Jr, and his campaign manager, are merely ignorant of the history, perhaps they should keep his promise on the Jimmy Dore Show to speak with Max Blumenthal: ("Show me where I'm wrong"...). Or read one of the book's Jeremy Sachs's suggested (see "Israel’s Chance to Turn Carnage into Peace"): "I refer readers interested in the detailed history of this long saga to the wise and scholarly study by my esteemed colleague Professor Rashid Khalid, The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine. Historian Ian Black, in his book Enemies and Neighbors: Arabs and Jews in Palestine and Israel 1917-2017 …"
Or, read Aaron Good's recent “Beacon” post, “The World in Crisis: Why We Need Kennedy’s New American Foreign Policy”: “Now, in the fall of 2023, as Israel opts for a maximalist military response, global opinion will likely turn decisively and perhaps irreversibly against the US and Israel. This is not the worst of it. Other countries could intervene to defend the stateless Palestinians against the Israeli military. This could spiral into a regional conflict with the potential to go nuclear.”
Or, read Scott Ritter's recent Substack post, “Bobby Kennedy, Israel, and the Hypocrisy of Peace and Diplomacy”: “Bobby’s position was a disaster. I can personally attest to several high-profile political personalities who were ready to throw in with Bobby, only to have his position on Israel cause them to take stock of where they stood.”
And, finally, perhaps Rfk Jr & Fox should consider the words of RFK's former campaign manager Dennis Kucinich in his recent Substack essay:
The [Gaza] violence it is calculated. It is rooted in ... opportunism disguised as vengeance, statecraft as slaughter. … Our weapons are creating carnage against helpless people. ... We must demand, now, that our government take a new direction, and soon ... It is an unfathomable, beyond the Orwellian, to commit ethnic cleansing and call it defense … That this genocide is being visited upon the Palestinians by the descendants of those who suffered the utterly condemnable, indelible inhumanity of the Holocaust is mind boggling."
"… the destruction of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank brings back greater risks for the survival of Israel itself and all those who dwell within. … Let us stand for the survival of both Jews and Arabs. Otherwise we are all participants in the massacres that have been and those that are yet to come. … Let us take the side of peace. Let us take the side of reconciliation. Let us take the side of restoration. … And Americans must demand our government heal our own nation, serve our own people, and use our precious resources to improve the lives of all Americans."
This campaign has been wholly DNCed. Everyone who has worked on it knows this, and many many are leaving. The campaign's 'Gaza Explanation" last week featuring Charles Eisenstein -- who should open his own patchouli/crystal business -- was a political disaster on the level of Howard Dean's scream.
This polling is very amusing, because what is happening here is that -- led by Zio-Nazis shitlibs -- the campaign is being infiltrated by vets of the campaigns of Hillary, Schumer, Andrew Cuomo, Pelosi et. al. This climb in the polls -- a soufflé driven by nothing other than loathing of Biden and Trump -- indicates that Bobby's campaign is becoming the new Big Thing: Trump, RussiaGate, COVID, January 6, Nazi Ukraine. . . Nothing more, and how heartening is that, huh??
The man and the candidate is very special. But the campaign itself has been hijacked.
You bet. The hour with Eisenstein became 15 minutes before it was shut down. During the ZOOM call, no one was allowed to speak, in fact no one was allowed to ask any real Qs. And there was no chat. All "questions" had to be monitored/censored by three moderators who stripped every query of all substance. So what we were left with was Eisenstein babbling on about the nature of truth, what is a ceasefire really, how we're all dead wrong about something, and similar bilge. Plus we were told he would have nothing(!) to say about Bobby's feelings about the Genocide. Then why the heck are we all here??
I have a theory about that. This Eisenstein call was announced only a couple hours before it began, from 700 to 900pm. The exact same time as Dr. West's first ZOOM call of his campaign. I think that's known as a political dirty trick.
Very sad, because normally the Bobby ZOOM calls gather between 200 to 300 people. The Eisenstein call had over 1,000. Totally blown.
I still think the candidate is very special. To paraphrase Bob Dylan: something is happening here, and I don't know what it is. . .
Thanks. I appreciate the info. I've been following Eisenstein since last May. I think his heart's in the right place. But, he's in a tough spot. Last night, I re-read through all his posts concerning Israel/Palestine & Gaza (and a BUNCH of thoughtful Comments).
Notes from Charles Eisenstein's Substack essays on RFK & Israel/Palestine/Gaza:
“I have been advising Robert F. Kennedy Jr. in his Presidential campaign, and have been deeply disappointed by his recent [10/23] statements on Israel and West Asia. ...“My disagreement with RfK Jr. on the Palestine issue is profound. [8/23] …
“Does association mean endorsement? Is this how we are to change the world — to divide into opinion tribes that demand complete conformity on pain of expulsion? … perhaps what we need to let go of is the very tribalism that expresses itself in the form of guilt-by-association. Let’s stop scrutinizing every action through the lens of, “Whose side are you on? … There are other ways to make change in the world besides “standing with” and 'standing against.'”
“I remain an adviser to the campaign not because I’m willing to swallow the Palestine disagreement for a greater cause, but because of certain personal qualities I have seen in Robert F. Kennedy Jr. that give me confidence that he will change his mind.” … humility … a willingness to listen and cling less tightly to being right. … compassion: he is a very kind man who cares especially for those who have been left out. Third is sympathy for the underdog. … It is only a matter of time, I believe, before he recognizes that pattern in Israel’s relations with the Palestinians.”
“My goal … is that he listen to the best of what all sides have to offer. He is already familiar with the hard-line “pro-Israel” side.1 I envision a listen-and-learning session where he sits with scholarly critics of Israel [Max Blumenthal, Aaron Mate, Norman Finkelstein?], Palestinian peace activists, Israeli peace activists [Miko Peled?], and maybe a peace rabbi, absorbing their views and experiences. What I ask for is not a change of opinion, it is a full open-minded listening to all sides. That is the mark of a true leader.”
My disappointment in RFK Jr. is not because I think he has taken the wrong side. It is that he has taken a side. … That he neglects to include the travails of the Palestinians in his statements is a symptom of sides-taking. … At some point we must choose: do we want vengeance ... Or do we want the horror to cease? This is not both-sides-ism nor is it spiritual bypassing. It is a practical choice.”
REPLY: Charles Eisenstein Oct 15 I'm not his campaign manager, just an advisor. But I believe he will change his mind. He is a man of real compassion.
REPLY: Charles Eisenstein Oct 16 … Any leader with courage needs to call for the genocide to stop. Period.
“The main Kennedy campaign slogan is Heal the Divide. If the divide in the Holy Land can be healed, so it can be in all lands.”
Note: My quotes from Charles are not comprehensive; they are just some of the notes I took late last night. Please read his Substack posts to get the full context. And, there are a LOT of thoughtful comments.
. . .
RFK volunteers & supporters are divided on the Gaza issue. If the RFK campaign can't find a way to “heal the divide” within itself, how much hope is there to do so for the country?
It's unfortunate that Dennis KucinIch is no longer campaign manager (his thoughts on the issue can be found on his Substack; he's not doing interviews on why he left). A few weeks ago, a YouTube channel host said that he had been told that RFK's new campaign manager, Amaryllis Fox Kennedy, has contributed to RFK's hard-line stance on Gaza:
“... someone told me who had been working around the campaign … that she was the person responsible for all the Israel stuff and that seems to be confirmed by Dennis's departure as the campaign manager and then with this series of tweets it seems that she is the person there who is responsible for this … I don't know that she's really that bad. I think maybe she's got a some positions here that she needs to be educated upon or could revise or maybe she and Bobby will come up with something that will allow them to seize the initiative here … I don't get it it's very weird now.”
Her series of tweets on Oct 26th & 28th justified leveling Gaza and driving the survivors into the desert (echoing the leaked Israel paper, ‘Option C’ – Israeli Government Policy Paper Lays Out Plan for Ethnic Cleansing of Gaza”):
“All we can do in the immediate term is preserve the maximum number of lives. Then build the fairer world we seek going forward. ... Two extremes emerge ... (2) level the civilian centers under which the perpetrators hide without making a herculean effort to evacuate the civilians inside. Both of these extremes are intolerable forms of collective punishment. So what then to do? Evacuate [“Ethnic cleanse”?] civilians for a start. 2 million people is a vast undertaking but opening the rafah crossing could allow safe haven (albeit in the brutally inhospitable sinai ...”
Uh, … there's other options besides Nakba 2.0 and committing war crimes. I'd suggest she read Jeremy Sach's recent essay, “"Israel’s Chance to Turn Carnage into Peace" -- Friends Do Not Let Friends Commit Crimes Against Humanity
I don't know but if my father and uncle were murdered I would be careful with what I said to upset people regarding Zionism particularly when the United States govt denied protection. The president had no right to do that. Without the FBI, CIA and US military to check on things like strategically placed bombs on roads or in limos, I would be pretty frightened someone might kill me. Wouldn't you?
Many of us gray haired people were very happy with Kennedy's campaign until his adamant support for Israel's genocide. It put the lie to his anti-war and anti-racism verbal commitment. He has lost a lot of support over this and his refusal to look at the context of Oct 7 which is the 75 yr old illegal and brutal Israeli Occupation of Palestine with its imperialist goals of gaining control of other Arab states. One of his major points of attraction was his commitment to talk with people about all issues with an open mind. Given the outpouring of millions of people in the US and world wide against this genocide against the Palestinians and Israel's outright denial of their cultural existence it is clear that he is not as open minded as he claims and has betrayed any trust we had placed in him. We liked his stance of vaccine safety which he has refused to even discuss anymore which raises questions about whether he would sell out to AIPAC and Christian Zionists. Given his popularity among many younger people, losing the support of the older generations who wanted to trust him is a losing position and I urge his to alter his positions on this.
"By Speaking Truth to Youth, RFK Jr. Earns the Highest Favorability of Any Presidential Candidate"
. . .
But, how many well-informed youth are proud of America supplying Israel with the bombs that's turned Gaza City into Dresden? Some of that Gen Z support may wane when they “start paying attention” to Kennedy's hard-line Zionist position. Gen Z doesn't watch corporate propaganda news. When they dig into this issue, RFK's position won't make sense to them. When RFK Jr. just parrots Israel Lobby & Rabbi Shmuley Boteach's talking-points he damages his integrity & credibility on all subjects. Young people have been burned by Bernie; they have an aversion to BS and hypocrisy. It's frustrating to me that the RFK & his new campaign manager apparently haven't listened to the “other side” and fact-check their position.
If RFK Jr, and his campaign manager, are merely ignorant of the history, perhaps they should keep his promise on the Jimmy Dore Show to speak with Max Blumenthal: ("Show me where I'm wrong"...). Or read one of the book's Jeremy Sachs's suggested (see "Israel’s Chance to Turn Carnage into Peace"): "I refer readers interested in the detailed history of this long saga to the wise and scholarly study by my esteemed colleague Professor Rashid Khalid, The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine. Historian Ian Black, in his book Enemies and Neighbors: Arabs and Jews in Palestine and Israel 1917-2017 …"
Or, read Aaron Good's recent “Beacon” post, “The World in Crisis: Why We Need Kennedy’s New American Foreign Policy”: “Now, in the fall of 2023, as Israel opts for a maximalist military response, global opinion will likely turn decisively and perhaps irreversibly against the US and Israel. This is not the worst of it. Other countries could intervene to defend the stateless Palestinians against the Israeli military. This could spiral into a regional conflict with the potential to go nuclear.”
Or, read Scott Ritter's recent Substack post, “Bobby Kennedy, Israel, and the Hypocrisy of Peace and Diplomacy”: “Bobby’s position was a disaster. I can personally attest to several high-profile political personalities who were ready to throw in with Bobby, only to have his position on Israel cause them to take stock of where they stood.”
And, finally, perhaps Rfk Jr & Fox should consider the words of RFK's former campaign manager Dennis Kucinich in his recent Substack essay:
The [Gaza] violence it is calculated. It is rooted in ... opportunism disguised as vengeance, statecraft as slaughter. … Our weapons are creating carnage against helpless people. ... We must demand, now, that our government take a new direction, and soon ... It is an unfathomable, beyond the Orwellian, to commit ethnic cleansing and call it defense … That this genocide is being visited upon the Palestinians by the descendants of those who suffered the utterly condemnable, indelible inhumanity of the Holocaust is mind boggling."
"… the destruction of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank brings back greater risks for the survival of Israel itself and all those who dwell within. … Let us stand for the survival of both Jews and Arabs. Otherwise we are all participants in the massacres that have been and those that are yet to come. … Let us take the side of peace. Let us take the side of reconciliation. Let us take the side of restoration. … And Americans must demand our government heal our own nation, serve our own people, and use our precious resources to improve the lives of all Americans."
This campaign has been wholly DNCed. Everyone who has worked on it knows this, and many many are leaving. The campaign's 'Gaza Explanation" last week featuring Charles Eisenstein -- who should open his own patchouli/crystal business -- was a political disaster on the level of Howard Dean's scream.
This polling is very amusing, because what is happening here is that -- led by Zio-Nazis shitlibs -- the campaign is being infiltrated by vets of the campaigns of Hillary, Schumer, Andrew Cuomo, Pelosi et. al. This climb in the polls -- a soufflé driven by nothing other than loathing of Biden and Trump -- indicates that Bobby's campaign is becoming the new Big Thing: Trump, RussiaGate, COVID, January 6, Nazi Ukraine. . . Nothing more, and how heartening is that, huh??
The man and the candidate is very special. But the campaign itself has been hijacked.
GAZA GAZA GAZA GAZA GAZA GAZA GAZA GAZA
I missed the "Gaza Explanation" last week. Could you give me (and others) a brief summary?
You bet. The hour with Eisenstein became 15 minutes before it was shut down. During the ZOOM call, no one was allowed to speak, in fact no one was allowed to ask any real Qs. And there was no chat. All "questions" had to be monitored/censored by three moderators who stripped every query of all substance. So what we were left with was Eisenstein babbling on about the nature of truth, what is a ceasefire really, how we're all dead wrong about something, and similar bilge. Plus we were told he would have nothing(!) to say about Bobby's feelings about the Genocide. Then why the heck are we all here??
I have a theory about that. This Eisenstein call was announced only a couple hours before it began, from 700 to 900pm. The exact same time as Dr. West's first ZOOM call of his campaign. I think that's known as a political dirty trick.
Very sad, because normally the Bobby ZOOM calls gather between 200 to 300 people. The Eisenstein call had over 1,000. Totally blown.
I still think the candidate is very special. To paraphrase Bob Dylan: something is happening here, and I don't know what it is. . .
Thanks. I appreciate the info. I've been following Eisenstein since last May. I think his heart's in the right place. But, he's in a tough spot. Last night, I re-read through all his posts concerning Israel/Palestine & Gaza (and a BUNCH of thoughtful Comments).
Notes from Charles Eisenstein's Substack essays on RFK & Israel/Palestine/Gaza:
“I have been advising Robert F. Kennedy Jr. in his Presidential campaign, and have been deeply disappointed by his recent [10/23] statements on Israel and West Asia. ...“My disagreement with RfK Jr. on the Palestine issue is profound. [8/23] …
“Does association mean endorsement? Is this how we are to change the world — to divide into opinion tribes that demand complete conformity on pain of expulsion? … perhaps what we need to let go of is the very tribalism that expresses itself in the form of guilt-by-association. Let’s stop scrutinizing every action through the lens of, “Whose side are you on? … There are other ways to make change in the world besides “standing with” and 'standing against.'”
“I remain an adviser to the campaign not because I’m willing to swallow the Palestine disagreement for a greater cause, but because of certain personal qualities I have seen in Robert F. Kennedy Jr. that give me confidence that he will change his mind.” … humility … a willingness to listen and cling less tightly to being right. … compassion: he is a very kind man who cares especially for those who have been left out. Third is sympathy for the underdog. … It is only a matter of time, I believe, before he recognizes that pattern in Israel’s relations with the Palestinians.”
“My goal … is that he listen to the best of what all sides have to offer. He is already familiar with the hard-line “pro-Israel” side.1 I envision a listen-and-learning session where he sits with scholarly critics of Israel [Max Blumenthal, Aaron Mate, Norman Finkelstein?], Palestinian peace activists, Israeli peace activists [Miko Peled?], and maybe a peace rabbi, absorbing their views and experiences. What I ask for is not a change of opinion, it is a full open-minded listening to all sides. That is the mark of a true leader.”
My disappointment in RFK Jr. is not because I think he has taken the wrong side. It is that he has taken a side. … That he neglects to include the travails of the Palestinians in his statements is a symptom of sides-taking. … At some point we must choose: do we want vengeance ... Or do we want the horror to cease? This is not both-sides-ism nor is it spiritual bypassing. It is a practical choice.”
REPLY: Charles Eisenstein Oct 15 I'm not his campaign manager, just an advisor. But I believe he will change his mind. He is a man of real compassion.
REPLY: Charles Eisenstein Oct 16 … Any leader with courage needs to call for the genocide to stop. Period.
“The main Kennedy campaign slogan is Heal the Divide. If the divide in the Holy Land can be healed, so it can be in all lands.”
Note: My quotes from Charles are not comprehensive; they are just some of the notes I took late last night. Please read his Substack posts to get the full context. And, there are a LOT of thoughtful comments.
. . .
RFK volunteers & supporters are divided on the Gaza issue. If the RFK campaign can't find a way to “heal the divide” within itself, how much hope is there to do so for the country?
It's unfortunate that Dennis KucinIch is no longer campaign manager (his thoughts on the issue can be found on his Substack; he's not doing interviews on why he left). A few weeks ago, a YouTube channel host said that he had been told that RFK's new campaign manager, Amaryllis Fox Kennedy, has contributed to RFK's hard-line stance on Gaza:
“... someone told me who had been working around the campaign … that she was the person responsible for all the Israel stuff and that seems to be confirmed by Dennis's departure as the campaign manager and then with this series of tweets it seems that she is the person there who is responsible for this … I don't know that she's really that bad. I think maybe she's got a some positions here that she needs to be educated upon or could revise or maybe she and Bobby will come up with something that will allow them to seize the initiative here … I don't get it it's very weird now.”
Her series of tweets on Oct 26th & 28th justified leveling Gaza and driving the survivors into the desert (echoing the leaked Israel paper, ‘Option C’ – Israeli Government Policy Paper Lays Out Plan for Ethnic Cleansing of Gaza”):
“All we can do in the immediate term is preserve the maximum number of lives. Then build the fairer world we seek going forward. ... Two extremes emerge ... (2) level the civilian centers under which the perpetrators hide without making a herculean effort to evacuate the civilians inside. Both of these extremes are intolerable forms of collective punishment. So what then to do? Evacuate [“Ethnic cleanse”?] civilians for a start. 2 million people is a vast undertaking but opening the rafah crossing could allow safe haven (albeit in the brutally inhospitable sinai ...”
Uh, … there's other options besides Nakba 2.0 and committing war crimes. I'd suggest she read Jeremy Sach's recent essay, “"Israel’s Chance to Turn Carnage into Peace" -- Friends Do Not Let Friends Commit Crimes Against Humanity
you had my support until you backed a genocide.
How can we stand up for you anymore when you do not stand up for the civilians undergoing mass slaughter...the War crime occurring in Gaza?
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1064161378340658
How about Gaza/Palestine?? Please addrss this!!